[15:06:53] 6Team-Practices, 6Release-Engineering, 7Testing Initiative 2015: Talk to Greg and Arthur about Onboarding's role in establishing good testing practices/habits - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108121#1531786 (10ALantz) @Awjrichards Thanks for the mention. Please let me know where I can help. [17:29:33] ggellerman: Can you help me get the THC docs in one place? [17:30:54] never mind. I think I found what I needed [17:51:06] dstrine: mind if I find some time on your calendar to chat? [17:51:47] sure [17:51:53] today is a little busy [18:13:42] Here is my list of teams to invite to do interrupt % tracking: FR-tech, Analytics, RelEng, Mobile, Collab, Language. [18:13:54] Questions: 1) [18:14:09] 1) Who has a TPGer? David on FR-Tech, Grace on Analytics, [18:14:19] Max on Mobile, [18:15:13] (Max on Mobile, or on Mobile Apps?). Nobody's on RelEng, right? [18:15:50] 2) Rough plan: discuss via email, meet if needed, to set some shared definitions, then meet with each team to figure out how to track, including retroactively if possible [18:16:50] 3) better to email everyone (TPGers + whoever is doing tracking at each team), or TPGers want to introduce this with their teams individually? [18:27:27] jaufrecht: Mobile Apps (Web is klans) [18:30:19] jaufrecht: what do you want to do about "% interrupt"? [18:30:41] I want to measure it [18:32:44] and ultimately get every team to set a goal of exactly 47% interrupt work :) [18:34:15] email is ready to go to everyone who's participated in the discussion thread plus a few other teams; any objections to emailing teams + TPG at once? [18:34:15] how have you already come to an ideal %? [18:34:44] 47 is the perfect number. What else could the correct number be? [18:35:25] I don't have any "right" numbers in mind. Several people in the thread have confident predictions, which suggests to me that measuring reality could be informative. [18:40:40] dstrine: looks like andre is not available for the meeting later today - do you still want to go ahead with the mtg? [18:40:54] yeah I saw that [18:41:26] We have not had as much contact with Quim and we could still use this time to talk with him [18:41:37] Andre and sort of heard our issues already [18:41:51] it is nearly impossible to have both of them online at a common time [18:43:38] jaufrecht: I get the executives are asking for granular analysis. I'm managing a lot of this with Katie and Anne (tech lead and PO). However I really doubt we're going to come up with a standard percentage of work in certain categories. The teams we work with a just too diferent [18:44:09] I also disagree with many of the assumptions on this task: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T99958 [18:44:33] the age of tasks in a backlog have little to do with interruptions [18:48:18] I also don't think there are "Ideal" ratios [18:52:27] The relationships between age of task, whether or not it's an interruption, planned vs unplanned, and maintenance vs functionality are all super-interesting [18:52:53] I suspect that in some teams, all interrupt work is maintenance but not all maintenance work is interrupt, but wonder if that's true across most teams [18:54:21] Re: Ideal ratios, do you think no team should have a ratio, or that there is probably not an ideal for different types of teams, e.g., you would disagree that "feature teams should have interrupt under 20%, but ops teams should expect interrupt over 50%", to throw out an example? [18:55:09] I think the data need to come before you make theories or goals. [18:55:50] I would rather collect data on what is happening and then ask the team "is this a sustainable mix of work?" "Could we make a common goal of reducing interruptions?" [18:57:27] I think that's my plan - data first. But I like getting people on record with predictions because then they are more invested in the measurements. [18:58:28] In VE I've been using the term "interruptions" but we probably want to switch to the term "maintenance". If we measure interrupt %, that should be separate from maintenance %, and I'm not sure we should measure it at all, or at a team level. [18:59:28] fr-tech sees these terms as totally different ideas... our work is way too different [18:59:50] Also, you may record an interrupt percentage of 55% in Fr-tech and 20% in VE but that doesn't mean fr-tech is doing something wrong or is unhappy with their work. each team has a different product, technology and user base [19:00:51] I think it's totally fine to ask teams to categorize their with. You could even set quarterly goals to reduce some categories. However it's not usually comparable across team. [19:01:05] *categorize their work [19:24:20] 6Team-Practices: [EPIC] Review, synthesize, and present Q4 THC data - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108215#1532374 (10Awjrichards) p:5Triage>3High [19:29:56] 6Team-Practices: Design series of mini-workshops on Agile/Process, for Community Tech - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108859#1532380 (10ksmith) 3NEW a:3ksmith [19:33:04] 6Team-Practices: Design series of mini-workshops on Agile/Process, for Community Tech - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108859#1532402 (10ksmith) p:5Triage>3Normal [19:34:16] 6Team-Practices: Get code review for Phab burnup reporting scripts - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108645#1532413 (10JAufrecht) p:5Triage>3Normal No takers from engineering list. Regular TPG task now. [19:36:39] 6Team-Practices: Determine overall 'health' for each Q4 focus area - average results - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108225#1532418 (10Awjrichards) p:5Triage>3High [19:37:10] 6Team-Practices: Read through team health check notes and surveys and note trends - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108223#1532424 (10Awjrichards) p:5Triage>3High [19:39:22] 6Team-Practices, 6Release-Engineering, 5Testing Initiative 2015: Follow up workshop & brown bag ideas from Testing: Where does it hurt? - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108122#1532434 (10Awjrichards) p:5Triage>3Normal [19:39:25] 6Team-Practices: Populate the Q4 Health Check "trends" table based on findings - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108862#1532437 (10ksmith) 3NEW [19:39:38] 6Team-Practices: Populate the Q4 Health Check "trends" table based on findings - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108862#1532437 (10ksmith) [19:39:39] 6Team-Practices: Read through team health check notes and surveys and note trends - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108223#1532446 (10ksmith) [19:40:38] 6Team-Practices, 6Release-Engineering, 5Testing Initiative 2015: Talk to Greg and Arthur about Onboarding's role in establishing good testing practices/habits - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T108121#1532448 (10Awjrichards) p:5Triage>3Normal [19:41:30] 6Team-Practices, 6Project-Creators: Create #201516-Q1 project in phabricator - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T106752#1532451 (10ksmith) [19:58:27] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic: [EPIC] 2nd pass on bookshelf/reading list - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T94475#1532494 (10MBinder_WMF) 5Open>3declined [20:00:44] 6Team-Practices: Schedule second process chat between TPG and Andre - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T106710#1532497 (10Awjrichards) @Aklapper if/when there's a topic you/the TPG would like to sync up and discuss, let's schedule a separate meeting dedicated for that. I'm going to decline this task for now in... [20:00:50] 6Team-Practices: Schedule second process chat between TPG and Andre - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T106710#1532498 (10Awjrichards) 5Open>3declined [20:25:56] 6Team-Practices, 6Phabricator, 7Epic: [EPIC] Gather requirements from teams for Phab project management feature requests - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T105404#1532568 (10MBinder_WMF) After chatting in our "How to drive Phab" meeting, we decided that this should remain a wishlist, as opposed to umbrella... [21:48:21] 6Team-Practices, 6Phabricator: Add support for task types - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T93499#1532857 (10mmodell) There really isn't any reason you couldn't do all of this with phabricator's custom field support. One custom field can be hidden or shown based on other fields. I'm not entirely sure how t... [23:24:48] jaufrecht: heya - got a minute for a quick hangout? [23:25:21] yes [23:25:53] jaufrecht: groovy - feel free to hangout me when you're ready [23:26:18] im not sure what the appropriate verb is for that