[00:01:58] 6Team-Practices: [EPIC] Run Strategy Tests - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117924#1972138 (10JAufrecht) [00:02:46] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] TPG follows a selected and documented strategy. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113053#1972145 (10JAufrecht) [00:03:44] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] TPG follows a selected and documented strategy. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113053#1653604 (10JAufrecht) [00:03:46] 6Team-Practices: [EPIC] Run Strategy Tests - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117924#1972152 (10JAufrecht) 5Open>3Invalid a:3JAufrecht Removed in reconfiguration of Strategy task hierarchy [00:04:20] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] TPG follows a selected and documented strategy - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113053#1972161 (10JAufrecht) [00:05:53] 6Team-Practices: Assign all open TPG tasks to a Milestone if possible - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125005#1972170 (10JAufrecht) [00:08:51] 6Team-Practices, 15User-JAufrecht: TPG documents FY2016Q2 tasks - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119136#1972182 (10JAufrecht) [00:09:09] 6Team-Practices, 15User-JAufrecht: TPG documents FY2016Q2 tasks - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119136#1819016 (10JAufrecht) [00:09:52] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] Pilot Milestone-Based Burnup usage within TPG - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119473#1972186 (10JAufrecht) [00:10:48] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 15User-JAufrecht: Agree to detailed TPG Q3 Work Tracking plan - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T123146#1972196 (10JAufrecht) [00:13:00] 6Team-Practices: Close out TPG FY2016Q2 milestones - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125010#1972209 (10JAufrecht) 3NEW [00:14:38] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 15User-JAufrecht: Agree to detailed TPG Q3 Work Tracking plan - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T123146#1972222 (10JAufrecht) [00:16:07] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] Pilot Milestone-Based Burnup usage within TPG - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119473#1972237 (10JAufrecht) [00:17:53] 6Team-Practices: Finalize TPG Milestones for F2016Q3 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125012#1972240 (10JAufrecht) 3NEW [00:19:12] 6Team-Practices: Finalize TPG Milestones for F2016Q3 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125012#1972257 (10JAufrecht) [00:19:40] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] Pilot Milestone-Based Burnup usage within TPG - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119473#1827196 (10JAufrecht) [00:21:18] 6Team-Practices: Finalize TPG Milestones for F2016Q3 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125012#1972284 (10JAufrecht) [00:21:50] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] Pilot Milestone-Based Burnup usage within TPG - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119473#1827196 (10JAufrecht) [00:23:13] 6Team-Practices: Close out TPG FY2016Q2 milestones - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125010#1972293 (10JAufrecht) [00:24:59] 6Team-Practices: Finalize TPG Milestones for F2016Q3 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125012#1972306 (10JAufrecht) [00:25:57] 6Team-Practices: Finalize TPG Milestones for F2016Q3 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125012#1972240 (10JAufrecht) [00:26:41] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] Pilot Milestone-Based Burnup usage within TPG - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119473#1972316 (10JAufrecht) [00:29:37] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 15User-JAufrecht: [EPIC] TPG documents FY2016Q2 tasks - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119136#1972330 (10JAufrecht) [00:32:58] 6Team-Practices, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: Team Practices Group decides on the team’s operating strategy. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122851#1972356 (10JAufrecht) [00:33:00] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] TPG follows a selected and documented strategy - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113053#1972357 (10JAufrecht) [00:33:16] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: [EPIC] TPG follows a selected and documented strategy - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113053#1653604 (10JAufrecht) [00:33:28] 6Team-Practices: Team Practices Group decides on the team’s operating strategy. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122851#1915206 (10JAufrecht) [00:34:02] 6Team-Practices: Make sure that TPG strategic possibilities are not out of alignment with potential org strategies - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124724#1972363 (10JAufrecht) [00:34:04] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: [EPIC] TPG follows a selected and documented strategy - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T113053#1653604 (10JAufrecht) [00:42:47] robla: I would be interested in getting involved with the archcom stuff, as I had started to do last year...but I'm stretched too thin right now (as many/most/all TPGers are right now). Hopefully Kristen will be able to work some magic for you [00:43:04] 6Team-Practices, 15User-JAufrecht: Pilot a per-project wiki page - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120991#1972433 (10JAufrecht) [00:43:06] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: [EPIC] TPG does "Other" work in FY2016Q3 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T123145#1972432 (10JAufrecht) [00:43:14] I'll also mention that quite a few staff have now been trained in meeting facilitation, so you might find answers in unexpected places [00:49:07] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: [EPIC] Pilot Milestone-Based Burnup usage within TPG - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119473#1972486 (10JAufrecht) [00:49:14] thanks meeple27! while I've got you here, I'm curious about your thoughts about https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122987#1967338 [00:50:01] robla: I definitely like the refined concepts of owners--you captured what I was intuitively feeling while it was happening, but was unable to recognize and articulate [00:50:38] I also like the idea of the reporter owning the summary (to take a bit off the faciilitator's plate, and to allow more in-meeting progress on it) [00:53:22] I think the "after the meeting" piece can be done in real-time by the reporter if that is separate from the facilitator [00:53:47] I'm glad this is making sense to you; thanks for the validation! [00:54:27] 6Team-Practices: Close out TPG FY2016Q2 milestones - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125010#1972519 (10JAufrecht) [00:59:44] 6Team-Practices: Finalize TPG Milestones for F2016Q3 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125012#1972543 (10JAufrecht) [00:59:46] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic: EPIC: Document and enumerate TPG Q3 planned work - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122257#1899708 (10JAufrecht) [01:03:15] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] Q2 Team Health Check Rethink - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114923#1972557 (10JAufrecht) [01:07:14] 6Team-Practices, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: Process Results from Q3 CSAT - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122845#1972571 (10JAufrecht) This is tagged Milestone, but not listed on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Team_Practices_Group/Goals/FY2016Q3. Should this be listed there as an Essential Functions miles... [01:08:53] 6Team-Practices, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: Process Results from Q3 CSAT - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122845#1972582 (10JAufrecht) Correction: It is marked on the Q3 goals page, but under a different name: "Maintain minimum 4 out of 5 (Likert scale) on current top-level KPIs". Is that the same thing?... [07:43:37] 6Team-Practices: Add Owner column to WMF quarterly goals template - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124065#1973262 (10Qgil) 5Open>3declined a:3Qgil It looks like this idea is not getting enough support. I don't have a counter argument strong enough to keep the discussion, so I will decline this task. Th... [15:00:16] 6Team-Practices, 3TPG-2016Q3: Administer new Q3 CSAT - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122974#1974058 (10DStrine) [15:00:18] 6Team-Practices, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: Process Results from Q3 CSAT - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122845#1974059 (10DStrine) [15:01:07] 6Team-Practices, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: Process Results from Q3 CSAT - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122845#1915152 (10DStrine) [15:01:09] 6Team-Practices, 3TPG-2016Q3: Administer new Q3 CSAT - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122974#1918314 (10DStrine) [15:01:33] 6Team-Practices, 3TPG-2016Q3: [EPIC] Maintain, improve, and refine TPG's KPIs (Q3 CSAT) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122852#1974064 (10DStrine) [15:02:10] 6Team-Practices, 3TPG-2016Q3: [EPIC] Maintain, improve, and refine TPG's KPIs (Q3 CSAT) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122852#1915216 (10DStrine) [18:32:06] jaufrecht_: the meeting room was changed to R31 [19:08:13] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] Q2 Team Health Check Rethink - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T114923#1979103 (10ggellerman) @JAufrecht Could we just remove reference to a Q and call it "Team Health Check Rethink?" [22:08:12] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 15User-JAufrecht: [EPIC] Launch SPDPP effort - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117101#1979764 (10JAufrecht) [22:17:51] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] Facilitate FY2016 Strategy process for Product group - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T124085#1979799 (10JAufrecht) [22:23:55] 6Team-Practices: TPG Strategy: re-check summary deck before re-sending to stakeholders - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125157#1979854 (10DStrine) [22:24:37] 6Team-Practices, 15User-JAufrecht: Experiment with new Phabricator Functionality - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T123317#1979868 (10JAufrecht) a:5JAufrecht>3DStrine [22:26:23] 6Team-Practices: TPG Strategy: re-check summary deck before re-sending to stakeholders - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T125157#1979878 (10DStrine) [22:27:23] 6Team-Practices, 15User-JAufrecht: Make recommendations for Maintenance Fraction for all teams - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109878#1979888 (10JAufrecht) [22:27:25] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone: [EPIC] Product-facing teams have agreed upon method for tracking core/strategic work - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T122841#1979889 (10JAufrecht) [22:27:43] 6Team-Practices, 7Epic, 7Milestone, 3TPG-2016Q3: [EPIC] TPG does "Other" work in FY2016Q3 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T123145#1979891 (10JAufrecht) [22:27:45] 6Team-Practices: Team Health Check Rethink gradients - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119581#1979892 (10JAufrecht) [23:05:26] dstrinebrb: Do you know if there is a way to turn off "reprioritizing" when sorting by Priority in Phab? [23:05:59] my team is sorting by priority and accidentally reprioritizing things when moving them between columns [23:09:01] mbinder: strine might understand the question, but I don't [23:09:09] do you have it set to sort by task priority? [23:09:22] but then you are dragging things around and it's not retaining that? [23:09:44] meeple27: if you set to sort by priority, and then you move tasks between columns, it can trigger an automatic change in the value "Priority" for the task [23:10:43] I'm still trying to find out exactly what my team is struggling with (there may be a process-oriented fix, such as dropping the task in the "correct" part of the column), too [23:11:28] the core issue is that they need to sort by priority, and they are accidentally changing that priority as tasks move between columns [23:19:34] wow, that sounds utterly borken [23:21:48] mbinder: They did a massive eval before choosing phab, so I'm not sure what's out there that would actually be better (where one of the definitions of "better" is FLOSS licensing). [23:22:29] meeple27: is this in regards to the priority issue, or retro language? [23:22:36] retro [23:23:06] meeple27: yea I guess the feeling is that we use other tools that are not open source, simply because we know we'll get more work done if we do [23:23:10] like google apps [23:23:20] reluctantly, but yes [23:23:44] even if you take that requirement away, I'm not sure there is one worth switching to [23:23:50] I have heard good things about mingle and trello [23:23:53] I'm not a fan of jira [23:24:12] don't know if mingle and trello would scale to a thousand users and hundreds of projects [23:24:22] the eval docs probably would say that [23:24:25] said that [23:24:30] meeple27: it remains to be seen that phab does [23:24:35] ha [23:24:41] at this point, phab is a thousand papercuts at the team level [23:24:52] Smith's first rule of issue tracking systems: They all suck [23:25:10] pick the one that sucks the least for what you're trying to do, and live with the pain [23:25:14] true, but every one of my team members would switch to trello or jira in a heartbeat [23:25:39] they don't for "the greater good" but at the cost of actually producing [23:26:12] anyway, this could be discussed at length. Do you think the language in the retro notes is ok? [23:26:26] yeah, i think the retro notes are fine [23:26:38] meeple27: then thanks for a moment to rant :) [23:26:40] before any discussions, anyone interested should definitely read all the notes from the eval [23:26:56] it was months long and had tons of input [23:27:00] (was all before my time here) [23:29:37] link? [23:33:29] "I can see our people making many additions to Phabricator, as there is quite a bit that we could still improve on; but hey, that's where this whole FOSS thing becomes useful. " This was the crutch that made Phab a reality, when the actual reality is there are no resources to maintain or build it out quickly. [23:37:49] meeple27: the real solution might be have a "phab team" that takes care of it, but that is probably as much of a pipe dream as no more paper cuts [23:38:33] mbinder: I think it's less an issue of resources, and more about the gatekeepers [23:38:59] even if you can code, you can't add a feature to phab unless phacility agrees, [23:39:08] meeple27: What I mean is, if we could fork it and maintain our own copy, that would let us actually build it with the hypothetical team [23:39:18] and they don't just have high bars about code quality, or non-intrusiveness, as I would expect from any project [23:39:30] they really only want code in the product that completely aligns with all of their visions [23:39:35] (at least, that's what I have seen) [23:39:39] yes [23:39:47] yes to the fork, although probably impractical [23:39:59] there was all this talk about how we could overcome Phab's shortcomings because opensource but that's just proven untrue [23:40:10] I don't think we really want to be in the business of writing and maintaining an entire tool [23:40:14] righ [23:40:28] right, although I thought that was more of a bonus than a core reason to go with phab [23:40:50] of course, I only skimmed the docs a year ago, so could be totally wrong [23:41:15] seems like the core reason was it housed "everything" under one umbrella [23:41:21] foss is important even if you never change a line of code, btw [23:43:14] meeple27: important enough that we should stop using gapps in favor of something like zimbra? [23:43:34] cuz lemme tell you, if you think phab is phrustrating, you aint used zimbra [23:43:39] that's the eternal debate [23:43:56] meeple27: well I just wanna be able to get stuff doooooone [23:44:07] for me, linux is fine, and I would be happy tossing all the macs out, but that might face a teeny bit of resistance ;) [23:44:20] don't toss out the max [23:44:25] :P [23:45:05] for example, I think the choice of closed source learning software was probably wrong, although I didn't look at their evaluation in enough detail to be 100% certain [23:45:36] (they chose closed source over a plausible FOSS candidate) [23:47:11] if I were convinced that some closed-source issue tracking tool was really awesome, I might go along with switching to it. It would have to be way better than jira. [23:47:30] and once we get the code review integrated into phab, that will make it harder to beat [23:48:28] anyway, I think it's great to ask questions, and fine to challenge, but don't get your hopes up