[15:29:32] Any thoughts on google inbox? Some people seem to love it. Google's promotional page and video were uncompelling [16:12:31] meeple27: i use inbox for my personal email and am a fan [16:13:14] im not sure if i'll like it as much for my work my email because my usage patterns are very different for work vs personal [16:13:32] plus i have a developed a pretty good workflow with my work email that i'm worried about disrupting [16:15:01] on the personal side of things, i used to use email a lot to remind myself to do stuff. inbox has reminder functionality built in, plus gives you the ability to 'snooze' emails (basically hide them until some specified [or totally random, if you prefer] time), which is primarily why i really like inbox for personal use. i'm pretty 'meh' on the bundling [16:15:01] feature [16:15:38] it definitely requires a different way of thinking about/approaching your email [16:18:46] meeple27: jaufrecht what laptops do you use? also, what distro of linux are you running? i am contemplating switching back to linux and debating whether or not i should just install ubuntu on my macbook or see if OIT will let me swap out my laptop for a pc [16:20:12] awjr: for work, a standard-issue asus zenbook. I recently upgraded from ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04.1. The only thing I wish worked were the brightness control buttons--I have to use the settings app to change brightness [16:20:27] also, do you find that software and kernel updates are disruptive? back in the day when i was a linux-only guy i got really frustrated that software and kernel updates would usually result in me losing hours/days to debugging stuff so i could use my laptop normally again, which is one of the primary reasons i switched to mac for my work machine [16:20:29] Thinkpad X1 Carbon 3rd gen with 2560x1440 non-touch screen. Kubuntu 16.04. Reasonably solid unless you dock it, in which case not very solid at all. [16:20:44] awjr: I used to use email as my "todo" reminder system, but now I use gcal's "reminders" for that [16:20:59] jaufrecht: lol what happens when you dock it? [16:21:03] nothing good [16:21:08] hahahaha [16:21:26] i haven't lost hours to an upgrade on this work machine since I got it [16:21:28] meeple27: you might like inbox then because it's pretty well integrated with reminders [16:21:35] meeple27: that is awesome [16:21:45] (I have also run only ubuntu at home for many years) [16:21:47] re: Inbox, I watched the video and I do think that some of those concepts should apply to our backlog. Snoozing things, for example. [16:21:58] jaufrecht: agreed! [16:22:19] minor annoyance: my boot partition is small, so every 3rd OS update or so, I have to manually delete old kernel versions [16:22:26] I would grade Kubuntu on Thinkpad X1C as A-/B+ stability undocked (my home laptop), and D+ stability with dock. [16:22:54] it seems like linux on the intel macs is much less of a risky proposition than it was on the old ppc macs (i used to run gentoo on an old ppc macbook - i felt like i was living in the wild wild west) [16:23:17] gentoo is likely to give you that feeling on any platform, isn't it? [16:23:23] meeple27: yes :) [16:23:40] i ran it for a while, before realizing that project's goals [16:24:41] what turned you off about the goals? [16:25:14] experimental/bleeding edge [16:25:26] Also, the Thinkpad screen is "Retina"-quality and that alone would make me put up with a lot. Never going back to visible pixels. [16:25:52] jaufrecht: but don't you use scaling so you lose some of that benefit? [16:25:54] oh yeah, that was part of what got me so excited about gentoo. until i became an adult and realized i wanted to actually be able to depend on my machine [16:26:04] awjr: yup! [16:26:17] I think I have 1.5x or 1.8x scaling at the OS level [16:26:46] jaufrecht: +1 on the display thing [16:27:09] my wife recently got a retina display laptop and i am very jealous [16:27:13] Kubuntu has perfectly adequate scaling now, maybe 10% of things from random sources still look bad (like Dropbox icon in toolbar). [16:27:36] there are still apps that don't respect the scaling, so you end up with this crisp font that is microscopic and therefore unreadable [16:27:49] o that sounds icky [16:27:49] that's become very rare for me the last 6 months [16:27:54] the standalone gmail app is another one [16:28:01] yeah, definitely rare [16:28:29] * meeple27 has been running only ubuntu at work and home for over 10 years now [16:29:24] i started to prep my laptop to dual boot os x and ubuntu last night, but realized i cant actually do that easily because i have full disk encryption [16:30:24] dual booting seems like a less risky option for easing into a potential switch, but i can't decide if it's worth losing the full disk encryption [16:31:03] the encryption thing feels like less of a big deal now that i don't really have sensitive stuff on my laptop anymore (when i did fundraising and was managing i did) [16:31:10] but still... [16:31:25] yeah, that's a tough one to give up [16:31:43] i travel enough that i feel like encryption is good even just in principle [20:38:22] phab q: i have two tasks that are related, but i dont see one as the parent/child of the other. what do i do? [20:38:51] specifically: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T137479 and https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139630 [20:39:14] meeple27: you are usually particularly wise about such things ^^ [20:39:50] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 10TPG-Essential-Functions, 07Epic: [EPIC] Provide support to people in design-related roles - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T137479#2558660 (10Awjrichards) [20:41:05] awjr: I don't understand the question [20:41:08] this is a little different than what i was imaginging yesterday, but perhaps we close https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139630, keeping https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T137479 tagged with the goal, and then update goal tags after this quarter [20:41:38] oh, you don't see = you don't think they ought to be [20:41:45] yes [20:42:11] meeple27: btw kittencam is getting good [20:42:16] doh [20:42:19] figures [20:43:41] awjr: you could do that. Or if 630 dropped everything up to the last 3 placeholders in the checklist, then it could represent the reformulated goal [20:44:09] to meet our goal, we need some kind of evaluation, right? And that wouldn't necessarily be part of 479 [20:48:55] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: Identify a pain point to address - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140929#2558718 (10Awjrichards) [20:52:00] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: Identify a pain point to address - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140929#2481365 (10Awjrichards) Using data from historic Team Health Check surveys as well as incoming requests from a diverse set of stakeholders in the WMF, the TPG has decided to focus o... [20:53:35] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: Share rationale for deciding on selected pain point - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140931#2558729 (10Awjrichards) [20:54:24] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: PLACEHOLDER: Pain point identification plan executed - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140937#2558751 (10Awjrichards) 05Open>03declined Declining this task in favor of T137479 [20:54:26] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 07Epic: [EPIC] Identify and address a common pain point across teams we interact with. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139630#2558755 (10Awjrichards) [20:54:52] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 07Epic: [EPIC] Identify and address a common pain point across teams we interact with. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139630#2438191 (10Awjrichards) [20:55:29] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 07Epic: [EPIC] Identify and address a common pain point across teams we interact with. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139630#2438191 (10Awjrichards) [20:55:31] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: "Fix a pain point" candidates ranked by cost/benefit ratio - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140934#2558763 (10Awjrichards) 05Open>03declined Redundant with T140931 [20:56:01] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 07Epic: [EPIC] Identify and address a common pain point across teams we interact with. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139630#2438191 (10Awjrichards) [20:57:56] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: Evaluate efforts with design engagement for Q1 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140938#2558781 (10Awjrichards) [20:58:20] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 10TPG-Essential-Functions, 07Epic: [EPIC] Provide support to people in design-related roles - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T137479#2558786 (10Awjrichards) [20:58:22] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: Evaluate efforts with design engagement for Q1 - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140938#2481574 (10Awjrichards) [20:59:27] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: Report on findings so far on effort to address common team pain point - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140939#2558807 (10Awjrichards) [20:59:49] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 10TPG-Essential-Functions, 07Epic: [EPIC] Provide support to people in design-related roles - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T137479#2369422 (10Awjrichards) [20:59:51] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: Report on findings so far on effort to address common team pain point - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140939#2481587 (10Awjrichards) [21:01:30] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 07Epic: [EPIC] Identify and address a common pain point across teams we interact with. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139630#2558827 (10Awjrichards) [21:01:34] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: PLACEHOLDER: Measure outcomes/impact of fixing a common pain point for teams - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140940#2558823 (10Awjrichards) 05Open>03declined Redundant with T140938 [21:14:45] 06Team-Practices, 10Phabricator, 10TPG-Essential-Functions: Create TPG "kwikkie" form for easier creation of phab tasks - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138547#2558854 (10ggellerman) 05Open>03declined Declining in Aug monthly TPG backlog grooming given drop in enthusiasm relative to when we opened it... [21:16:00] 06Team-Practices, 06Editing-Department, 07Epic: Assist with Editing Department Quarterly Planning for FY2017Q2 (Oct to Dec 2016) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143154#2558860 (10JAufrecht) [21:17:59] 06Team-Practices, 06Editing-Department: Draft - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143157#2558898 (10JAufrecht) [21:18:26] 06Team-Practices, 06Editing-Department: Draft SOP for Editing Department Quarterly Goals process - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143157#2558898 (10JAufrecht) p:05Triage>03High [21:18:52] 06Team-Practices, 06Editing-Department, 07Epic: Assist with Editing Department Quarterly Planning for FY2017Q2 (Oct to Dec 2016) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143154#2558860 (10JAufrecht) [21:19:19] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-Essential-Functions: Decide whether to create a TPG matrix to show who has what skills at what level of capability - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138997#2558921 (10ggellerman) p:05Normal>03Low [21:20:23] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-Essential-Functions: Decide whether to create a TPG matrix to show who has what skills at what level of capability - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138997#2416416 (10ggellerman) @KLans_WMF Could this be something that the new hire takes on per @awjr recommendation? [21:23:15] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-Essential-Functions: Document alternate approaches to TPG-style tall backlog - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138889#2413290 (10ggellerman) @Jaufrecht we now have a mandatory work review meeting each week instead of reviewing in staff where discussion was compressed...could you plea... [21:24:06] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-Essential-Functions: Document alternate Phabricator configuration to TPG-style single, linear backlog - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138889#2558943 (10JAufrecht) [21:25:02] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-Essential-Functions: Propose alternate Phabricator configuration to TPG-style single, linear backlog - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138889#2413290 (10JAufrecht) [21:26:44] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 07Epic: [EPIC] Identify and address a common pain point across teams we interact with. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139630#2558957 (10Awjrichards) [21:26:46] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: Share rationale for deciding on selected pain point - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140931#2558955 (10Awjrichards) 05declined>03Open Accidentally closed this, reopening. [21:27:52] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 07Epic: [EPIC] Identify and address a common pain point across teams we interact with. - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139630#2438191 (10Awjrichards) [21:27:54] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain: "fix a pain point" candidates documented - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T140933#2558963 (10Awjrichards) 05Open>03declined Declining due to team decision to role with the design engagement [21:28:46] awjr: is it possible that your headset in usb mode turns off the mic so you end up using the built-in? That's how it sounded the other day [21:29:35] meeple27: the other day was indeed using the built-in - did it sound like that today? i explicitly set hangouts to use the headset input [21:29:51] no, today sounded like a bluetooth mic [21:31:11] which is more tolerable, built-in or bluetooth mic? [21:33:39] meeple27: do you by chance know how to construct a search query in phabricator that will give me all child tasks of a specific task, both open and closed? [21:34:27] what im ultimately trying to do is bulk edit a bunch of child tasks [21:39:45] or jaufrecht ggellerman ^ [21:39:55] or maybe dstrine ^? [21:43:10] Not directly. If you could get a query tat included all of those tasks among others, then you could add the "Blocking" flag (in Maniphest Advanced Search) to get only child tasks. but that would include all child tasks, not just children of the specific task [21:44:40] >_< [21:44:40] meeple27: sorry, I rarely use search in Phab [21:47:22] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-Essential-Functions, 15User-JAufrecht: Propose alternate Phabricator configuration to TPG-style single, linear backlog - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T138889#2559031 (10JAufrecht) a:03JAufrecht [21:47:41] 06Team-Practices, 10Phlogiston (Technical Debt), 15User-JAufrecht: Remove or reduce project duplication in Phlogiston config files - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143033#2559033 (10JAufrecht) [21:47:50] 06Team-Practices, 06Editing-Department, 07Epic, 15User-JAufrecht: Assist with Editing Department Quarterly Planning for FY2017Q2 (Oct to Dec 2016) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143154#2559034 (10JAufrecht) [21:47:57] 06Team-Practices, 06Editing-Department, 15User-JAufrecht: Draft SOP for Editing Department Quarterly Goals process - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143157#2559035 (10JAufrecht) [21:48:51] 06Team-Practices, 06Editing-Department, 07Epic, 15User-JAufrecht: Assist with Editing Department Quarterly Planning for FY2017Q2 (Oct to Dec 2016) - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143154#2558860 (10JAufrecht) p:05Triage>03Normal [21:48:58] 06Team-Practices, 10Phlogiston (Technical Debt), 15User-JAufrecht: Remove or reduce project duplication in Phlogiston config files - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143033#2554611 (10JAufrecht) p:05Triage>03Normal [22:03:44] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 10TPG-Essential-Functions: Publish 'statement of purpose of design at the WMF' publicly - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139999#2559137 (10Awjrichards) [22:04:00] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 10TPG-Essential-Functions: Get feedback from Wikimedia community on first draft of 'statement of purpose of design at the WMF' - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139998#2559152 (10Awjrichards) [22:04:22] 06Team-Practices, 10TPG-2017Q1-Identify-Common-Pain, 10TPG-Essential-Functions: Get feedback from WMF on first draft of 'statement of purpose of design at the WMF' - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T139997#2559165 (10Awjrichards) [22:10:11] awjr: bluetooth was far superior to built-in [22:10:36] built-in < bluetooth < wired [22:10:59] awjr: searching seems straightforward [22:11:23] manifest/advanced offers choices for...oh [22:11:37] blocking/blocked, but only as binary values...not WHAT they are blocking or blocked by [22:11:45] meeple27: is the audio quality with my new headset poor enough for me to warrant looking at other options, or is it tollerably mediocre? [22:11:57] not having wires is nice... bu tnot sure it's worth the tradeoff [22:11:59] * meeple27 shakes head (and fist) [22:12:01] meeple27: yes correct [22:12:18] meeple27: i found an API method that would let me do it [22:12:19] i would stick with the bluetooth for now, at least [22:12:34] the echo is a bigger concern for me than the mic audio quality [22:12:39] meeple27: but writing a script to invoke the api to do it for me seemed like more work than just manually updating all the child tasks... [22:12:44] ah yes [22:12:56] the echo is problematic [22:13:03] in this case you could probably search for "pain point" [22:13:18] editing anything missing before doing the final query [22:13:22] no, none of the child tasks refer to pain point [22:13:23] but it sounds like you found a solution [22:13:30] yeah, i just did it by hand one at a time [22:13:31] oh, not that epic [22:13:37] yeah, the other one [22:14:03] seems to justify ggellerman's bird-naming of related tasks [22:14:23] * awjr walks away slowly from that flamewar [22:15:18] [phoenix] [22:16:24] in discovery, we briefly had a set of tasks labeled [pupa], another set named [larva], another set named [caterpillar], etc. [22:18:54] hehe i like th at [22:19:33] when i worked with the mobile web team, we named our iterations in alphabetical order using animal names one year, then film titles the next year [22:19:46] it was quite conveient since they did two week sprints, so we could get through the alphabet in one year [22:31:25] meeple27: you are missing extreme kitten hijinx [22:56:48] 06Team-Practices, 06Editing-Department, 15User-JAufrecht: Draft SOP for Editing Department Quarterly Goals process - https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T143157#2559352 (10JAufrecht) a:05JAufrecht>03TrevorParscal [23:04:26] awjr: I think I'll do the kitten-watchers a favor and will stay away. Undoubtedly as soon as I would tune in, all feline life would disappear from viwe [23:04:52] rfarrand: are you joining the call? [23:06:56] meeple27: yikes, yes, sorry - got distracted by kittens. [23:07:09] best excuse ever!