[16:07:34] halfak: you here? [16:07:41] Yup. What's up? [16:08:19] I'm lurking in -office. [16:08:22] And... [16:08:43] There seems to be a new PED team meeting going on. [16:09:16] Wondering if train the trainers might fit in. [16:09:29] If you want to lurk and check it out. [16:11:22] PED? [16:12:57] Program evaluation and development iirv [16:14:31] * halfak is lurking [16:14:49] * T13|needsCoffee saw you join... [16:15:24] Thanks for pinging me. I'll be in and out, but feel free to ping me if something relevant comes up. [16:25:03] tos: Hey! I'm working on a new mockup for the categorization and action menu. [16:25:12] hey! [16:25:20] I should have something for you to look at within a half hour. [16:25:22] Let me know when its done4 [16:25:24] ok [16:26:26] BTW, how do you feel about the arrow on the upper left of the user rectangles (represents expanded vs. compressed status)? [16:26:43] I've been considering removing it because it takes up too much space. [16:26:54] ... makes long usernames problematic. [16:27:14] Let me see... [16:33:08] halfak: tos I brought up the TtT question, and am next in Q queue. [16:33:23] T13|needsCoffee, What question [16:33:29] halfak, I like the arrow [16:33:42] Train the trainers [16:35:40] Sadly, it looks like I have to run. I'll catch the log. [16:35:44] Yep, all logged. [16:35:45] tos: I'll get back to you in a few hours with that mockup. [16:37:14] 1/2 hr = few hours [16:37:16] Nice! [16:37:26] Lol [16:37:26] :\ I didn't plan to have to run away. [16:37:31] T13|needsCoffee, Where did you bring up the question [16:37:40] You never do, do you? :P [16:37:51] tos: that's WMF time conversion. [16:37:57] -office [16:38:03] Nice [16:38:13] When did you get the time alotted to? [16:39:49] It's a PE&D new project. :) [16:43:09] Err? [16:43:45] ... [16:43:52] LOL [16:44:09] I lurk in -office... [16:44:22] I saw a meeting start up.. [16:44:41] Saw the topic/group PE&D [16:44:52] asked a question... :) [16:47:16] tos: you might be interested as well. They would be a good group to evaluate TAFI [16:47:34] just a sec [19:25:35] Mockup ready: http://imgur.com/YSxvSKu [19:25:40] tos: ping [19:25:42] T13: ping [19:26:25] Um... [19:26:35] I dont see any difference [19:26:39] I changed two things. (1) Clickable items look like a button and have a 3d effect. This will be made consistent in the UI. (2) Arrows appear next to menus that will drop down. [19:26:44] !pong [19:26:44] Don't mess with me T13! [19:27:36] Gotta run again for an hour, but I'll come back here looking for feedback. [19:27:36] Oh.. no time right now. [19:27:55] T13: No worries. If you wait, I'll get it into the Work log. [19:28:58] 1 - Nice. If 3D and normal effect are the same, from a non-UI perspective, it might be a good change. It might be not good too, so best to wait for feedback from others [19:29:43] 2. Good. I still want the |> arrow for the users (leftmost black arrow). [19:29:47] It was a good arrow [21:05:04] tos: Hmm. If I include the arrow, we'll have more issues users that have long usernames. Is that an acceptable tradeoff to you? [21:05:16] No [21:05:27] For longer usernames, why dont we truncate it [21:05:41] Abcdlongnameverylo... [21:05:51] Viewable by hovering maybe [21:06:07] That's possible. It's a more difficult problem than you'd think though. [21:06:23] I could do a fade-out effect. [21:06:29] And tooltip the complete username. [21:06:49] OK. Let me work on that for a bit. [21:06:52] I dont want the arrow gone because its hard enough already to understand you have to click the name of the user to open the large box [21:07:16] You don't have to click the name. You can click anywhere in the box. :) [21:07:23] But still. I see what you mean. [21:08:28] * halfak is fixing mockups. [21:08:57] * tos is fixing his internet wires. Will go offline for a few mins now [21:14:24] Back [21:32:10] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:EpochFail modified [[Wikipedia talk:Snuggle]] with https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=565941636 (/* Solutions to the the snuggler-newcomer race condition */) [21:36:31] Hey. Still hacking. I'm trying to get the arrow to take up a minimal amount of horizontal space. [21:40:26] tos: BTW, I've got the VisualEditor analysis mostly wrapped up. There's a bit of discussion on the talk page for it. I figured you might be interested in that. See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research_talk:VisualEditor%27s_effect_on_newly_registered_editors/Results [21:41:08] On it after I'm done making a list of all the books I own [21:44:24] Sounds like a monumental task. [21:46:53] New mockup: http://imgur.com/rqcF5MR [21:47:01] Now with "the arrow" [21:47:14] tos (when you're ready): ^^^ [21:47:27] Books = Story books [right now]. 20 done, 40 more to go, I suppose [21:48:49] Oooh. I read a lot of sci-fi and I'm terribly excited about it. Any chance you're into sociological commentary via future-fiction? [21:52:41] * tos does not like sci-fi [21:52:58] Mainly because I prefer to keep my head intact of whats science and whats sci-fi [21:53:25] Ahh... To a scientist, non-science is just a set of hypotheses :) [21:57:21] Unfortunately for me, my belief or disbelief in a topic matters a lot; and I'll much rather not want to sway my scientific thinking by my beliefs in sci-fi features [21:59:34] Ha ha. OK. If you ever want to get into a discussion of "ways of knowing", the "scientific method" and the role of empiricism, let me know. If I didn't discover that programming was so much fun, I would have been a Philosophy of Science researcher. [22:01:04] Surely. I'll love to get into deep discussions, but as it is, I am always busy squeezing your free time into Snuggle discussions; and still find them hard pressed :P [22:02:03] Btw do you have any idea what Technical_13 was speaking about, in relation to the mentorship thing? [22:02:24] * halfak is scrolling back. [22:02:40] Are you talking about the -office session? [22:04:58] Idk [22:05:01] But probably [22:05:12] I have no idea whats being talked about, tbh [22:07:59] Ahh... So there was an office hours for the Program Design and Evaluation group/team/whatever. [22:08:04] See: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Program_Evaluation_and_Design [22:08:24] Was? Is it done? [22:08:44] Yeah. It was happening at the time that T13 was talking about it. [22:09:07] Here's the log: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours/Office_hours_2013-07-26 [22:09:18] Oh [22:17:25] Oh [22:17:30] Oh [22:17:41] Oh? [22:17:46] OH! [22:18:43] !pie Helpmebot [22:19:17] !pie Helpmebot [22:19:17] * Helpmebot hits Helpmebot in the face with a pie. [22:19:25] Thanks Helpmebot [22:19:34] THANKS HELPMEBOT [22:19:43] :( [22:20:13] !pie test [22:20:25] * Helpmebot hits test in the face with a pie. [22:20:37] !blame halfak [22:20:37] * Helpmebot stares halfak in the eyes and starts shouting "abuse!" [22:20:40] !pie prime numbers [22:20:41] * Helpmebot hits prime numbers in the face with a pie. [22:21:41] !drink tos [22:21:42] * Helpmebot drops four ice cubes in a glass, fills it 1/4 of the way with Jim Beam, and tops it off with Moxie then hands it to tos. [22:21:53] !ping [22:21:53] pong [22:22:07] !ping is !pong [22:22:07] pong [22:22:08] Key was added [22:22:13] ... [22:22:18] !ping [22:22:18] pong [22:22:18] !pong [22:22:18] Don't mess with me wm-bot2! [22:22:25] Lol [22:22:28] haha [22:22:42] !ping is !ping [22:22:42] pong [22:22:42] This key already exist - remove it, if you want to change it [22:22:52] !wm-bot [22:22:52] liar [22:22:55] How do I remove a key? [22:23:05] You don't. :p [22:23:09] !remove tos [22:23:21] !remove ping [22:23:31] !ping [22:23:31] !pong [22:23:31] pong [22:23:32] Don't mess with me wm-bot2! [22:23:32] !ping del [22:23:32] pong [22:23:33] Successfully removed ping [22:23:40] !ping is !ping [22:23:40] pong [22:23:40] Key was added [22:23:41] !pong del [22:23:41] Don't mess with me halfak! [22:23:41] Unable to find the specified key in db [22:23:46] !ping [22:23:46] pong [22:23:46] !ping [22:23:47] pong [22:24:07] Oh wait [22:24:17] No endless loop without HMB doing it too! [22:25:02] Uhhh. [22:25:10] Yeah.. no. [22:25:16] !ping del [22:25:16] pong [22:25:16] Successfully removed ping [22:25:16] :( [22:25:27] !ping is !pong [22:25:27] pong [22:25:27] Key was added [22:25:30] * tos like endless bot loops [22:25:44] .... [22:25:56] @q tos [22:26:03] :p [22:26:10] Hey halfak ... [22:26:15] yup [22:26:19] :/ [22:26:19] How's it going? [22:26:30] @unq tos [22:26:31] It's going alright. How you doin' T13? [22:26:39] Hi tos [22:27:31] :\ [22:27:35] ;/ [22:27:46] :\---< [22:27:51] no arms [22:29:14] Technical_13, Where is this channel's logs? [22:31:30] tos: Hold off an any future sessions with mentors who are potential new Snuggle users. [22:31:47] I have the potential to do some Science that I'd like you to help with. [22:31:55] Ok. Also, why? [22:31:57] But we'll have to structure these sessions a little bit. [22:32:00] Nice! [22:32:13] * tos loves doing science. [22:32:18] I'm writing up a format to use for these interviews. [22:32:31] Ok... [22:33:01] I'd like to do these in conjunction with a few changes in the software to see how it changes how people want to make use of the software. [22:33:36] I kindof dont follow, but ok... [22:33:39] E.g. does making the action menu equally as prominent as the categorization menu encourage people to perform more actions. [22:34:05] Interestin [22:34:18] I figure that this question ought to have some science behind it if we're going to make Snuggle work correctly. [22:35:02] I'll ping you with the proposal in a half-hour. [22:35:19] I dont follow half of what was said, but with the proposal, it might be clearer [22:35:38] Technical_13, are you interested? I could really use your help in rounding up a set of Snuggly mentors. [22:36:06] Either way, we'll need to start with a list of editors and randomize it, so don't contact anyone yet,. [22:37:04] Just to tell you, I go offline for long in about 30 hours from now. So my help will be minimal unless you can do it in about 60 mins [22:37:26] How long? [22:37:36] This might take a week to set up. [22:37:38] http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/html/%23wikipedia-snuggle/ [22:37:54] So, it shouldn't be killer if you can't be involved for a few days. [22:37:55] halfak, I thought I told you top [22:38:15] Hell, I have been shouting it out for days/weeks now [22:38:22] You might have. I'm sorry if I have forgotten. :( [22:39:09] Leaving for college, not taking laptop, will stay away from wiki and internet and focus on studies, might pop in sporadically or come back actively after some time [22:39:21] some = Still a long time [22:39:22] Oh I see. [22:39:54] (Still havent compleetely closed the possiblity of not returning too :( ) [22:41:02] I'm glad that you're intending to jump in fully. I think that's a good idea. [22:41:53] Glad you think so too [22:44:07] If you have the time to help before you pull the plug, I'd appreciate a list of users that you think would be good to contact. I plan to look at everyone in adopt-a-user who has recently been active. Same for the Teahouse. [22:44:22] Oh! And AfC. [22:44:45] Dont forget WER [22:44:50] And EotW [22:45:51] Good point. We should have canvassed there for the last IRC session. [22:46:24] halfak, Considering Snuggle is/was under WER, its curious we didnt -_- [22:46:34] agreed. [22:46:38] Derp [22:48:01] !ping [22:48:01] pong [22:48:01] !pong [22:48:02] Don't mess with me wm-bot2! [22:48:08] Anyone who joined the latest WT:Snuggle or the IdeaLab discussion too [22:48:15] *discussions [22:53:02] halfak, Did you think about the watchlist ideas I mailed you [22:54:17] Oh! I like it. I've been considering. [22:54:23] ^the same thing for a while. [22:55:06] I'd like to add a "follow" feature to Snuggle. I'm not quite sure how I'll implement it, but I've been looking into how I I can tie Snuggle into the new notifications system. [22:56:02] It would be nice if Snuggle would ping you when a newcomer that you marked as food faith (or decided to "follow") was sent a negative talk message (e.g. Warning, CSD, etc.) [22:56:12] lol food faith [22:56:14] *good faith [22:56:54] halfak... hungry? [22:57:04] I WANT A FOOD FAITH OPTION! [22:57:24] We'll see come April 1st. [22:57:24] Supper time for. [22:57:26] Mark as good, bad or food faith contributers [22:57:43] I think I might add Trout to the list of actions. :P [22:57:45] * tos actually feels hungry now [22:58:04] Also, "kill" (blocks a user) [22:58:11] Maybe "Marriage proposal" [22:58:17] !pie tos [22:58:18] * Helpmebot makes a pie, and throws it at tos. [22:58:27] !pie halfak [22:58:28] * Helpmebot makes a pie, and throws it at halfak. [22:58:29] halfak, Both our options are the same :P [22:58:50] !pie wm-bot2 [22:58:51] * Helpmebot hits wm-bot2 in the face with a pie. [22:58:57] !curl [22:58:57] * Helpmebot curls up in a ball. [22:59:13] !uncurl [22:59:13] Done [22:59:21] lol @ "Done" [22:59:21] !cluebat tos [22:59:21] * Helpmebot is too tired to beat tos down with a cluebat today, ask again tomorrow. [22:59:26] ... [22:59:34] Technical_13, Get Marion back to the discussion. She's much more sensible to work with [22:59:44] Helpmebot: you're a lazy bum... [22:59:50] lol [23:00:03] tos: you'll get a kick out of this one... [23:00:26] I was in the store with her and her mom was waiting out in the car. [23:00:46] * tos sighs. I just wanted to discuss Snuggle. [23:00:48] Her mom texted us in the store saying hurry up she had to pee. [23:01:05] texted "us" [23:01:32] I let Marion reply and she hit the speach to text button and I told her to talk. [23:01:39] lol [23:02:03] The phone made sense of it as "blah blah blah blah blah blah" [23:02:14] Literally? [23:02:18] hahaha [23:02:21] Yep. [23:02:23] How old is she? [23:02:25] Wow [23:02:30] 3, i suppose [23:02:30] 21 months. [23:02:57] Did you send that message to her mom? [23:02:58] :) [23:04:49] She did. [23:08:53] Lol [23:11:21] I've gotta head home. [23:11:50] tos: If I don't see soon, then take care of yourself and drop me a message at some point so that I know you're still alive. [23:11:57] *you [23:12:10] Lol [23:12:45] I'm not giving up on Snuggle yet. It remains my priority number 1 whenever I can spare some time for Wikipedia ;) [23:13:16] :) Then that means there's hope in trying to convince you to collaborate on some academic publication. [23:13:19] Though you might want to ping someone else to help think of the UI fixes etc [23:13:33] Even if you dont want me to collaborate, I WILL! [23:13:42] good spirit [23:14:04] :D [23:14:26] There is not a snowball's chance in hell I am giving up a chance to do something close to "REAL RESEARCH" [23:15:07] Good to hear. [23:15:45] And with that, I better run. [23:15:49] Byo! [23:16:04] You'll have the draft of the proposal in your inbox. [23:16:09] In a few minutes. [23:16:09] Ok