[22:08:23] halfak, Just a pinging reminder that https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research_talk:Ideas/Helpdesks_on_Wikipedia still awaits research. You might want to put it somewhere on a to-do list [22:09:11] Hey! Yeah... I don't think I can add that one to my list right now. [22:09:20] I'm already stretched pretty thin. [22:10:00] Hmmm... Do you think there is any other way there can be some work done/update by anyone on this? [22:10:08] halfak, ^ [22:10:08] Let me have a look again. [22:11:32] There's an old project that I haven't pushed on in a while that might be relevant. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System/Help [22:11:49] I brought that up to some devs on the Growth team and there was some interest. [22:12:15] I think it would be pretty kickass to have a usable 1-click live help system. [22:12:43] Doing the background research on where newcomers go (and don't go) to get help would be a necessary precursor. [22:12:59] halfak, Hmmm... This looks pretty compatible with what I linked to. [22:13:08] Agreed [22:14:04] halfak, Could you bring it up again and see if there's someone willing to get cracking on it? [22:14:39] In the process. Sadly, I think that something like this would take a very large amount of effort to get off of the ground. See Flow. [22:16:10] halfak, I disagree. We do not need to rethink everything. I personally think it will be pretty helpful if there could be just one interactive webchat interface that is obvious enough [22:17:15] That, and some minuscle altering of the settings would make webchat itself a good candidate for being an ideal helpdesk [22:24:01] One thing that I'd like to get away from is being dumped into a channel. [22:24:11] I think that's one of the least accessible things about IRC for help. [22:24:14] tos: ^ [22:24:56] halfak, Err, explain? [22:25:47] When you say webchat, do you mean the web-based IRC connector? [22:26:20] halfak, Yes [22:27:50] So, webchat dumps you into a channel full of people. It's intimidating and people who are new to IRC won't know the norms. [22:28:01] I like 1:1 chat because the norms are obvious. [22:28:55] halfak, Check out #wikipedia-en-help and see how it fares from your perspective [22:29:12] I have [22:29:18] That's what I'm imagining. [22:29:42] I'm hoping there is a way the helpees do not hear what other helpees say [22:30:02] Hoping? [22:30:18] I faintly recall there is a way, but am not sure [22:30:38] Even then, there could be other work-arounds that prop up in my mind [22:31:53] As long as from the helpees POV, they see only the replies intended for them, it could fix all issues. A quick fix will be to have an interface that automatically filters and displays only those messages on the chat that use the helpee [22:32:00] helpee's name [22:32:18] And does not show them any of the others. [22:34:33] Seems like most people would just use their IRC client. [22:39:25] halfak, Point taken. Though literally 95+ % of our helpees do not understand IRC/webchat [22:39:56] Oh yeah -- but helpers would use IRC clients. [22:40:39] Either way, IRC might be a good technology to build on top of. I did some work with Jabber. NodeJS is another option that might work for us, but we'd have to build it up from scratch. [22:40:59] The Wikia folk have a chat system built on top of nodeJS. [22:41:31] Hmm.. This discussion does look like something we'd want to have in further with someone willing to work on it [22:41:47] +1 [22:42:48] Are you pinging people around to see if we can find someone? [22:46:42] Yeah. I was just talking to dev on Growth about it today. [22:46:59] +1 [22:47:35] That's good. Submitting an IEG grant could be one way to get an external coder to dedicate time on it too [22:47:43] that's a good point. [22:47:55] I'm down for updating my docs for such a proposal. [22:57:44] +1 I'm game to turn this into an IEG grant proposal. So do tell if I need to do anything from my part to help around with it. [23:01:25] Hmm.. Well, I'm not going to be able to take the lead on this one. [23:01:32] I can hardly lead what I'm leading already! [23:03:11] halfak, Err?? [23:04:31] Oh. I misread. [23:04:44] I can definitely take the lead on shaping up old docs :) [23:05:40] halfak, Sounds perfect. I'll let you work around on this one, as long as you can get things stirred up soon enough :) Do ping me if there is any way I can help [23:08:02] Will do. [23:08:29] :) In the meantime, one thing you could do is poll the en-helpers on their interest in new strategies for connecting with newcomers. [23:08:49] +! [23:09:42] Err.. explain? [23:10:57] Well, let's say that we get the Growth team to drop current plans and switch over to working on the system I proposed -- that would connect helpers and helpees 1:1, live in the wiki, etc. [23:11:15] It would be nice to know if people would be interested in working as helpers in that context. [23:11:33] Also, it would be good to know if helpers would be willing to switch to web UI. [23:15:13] Hm.. [23:15:13] Ok, I'll ask around soon. (When I get some time) [23:23:46] Gotta run. take care tos. [23:23:59] bye halfak