[17:41:20] Hi bot [17:41:30] Here are the logs from before [17:41:37] Topic for #wpmentorship set by tos2!~tos@wikipedia/TheOriginalSoni (Thu Jun 19 17:58:25 2014) [17:41:37] [23:31:46] Hey I_Jethrobot [17:41:37] [23:32:02] Sorry I'm a couple minutes late [17:41:37] [23:32:04] * You are now known as tos [17:41:37] [23:33:45] tos2 - Hey Soni. [17:41:37] [23:33:51] oops. [17:41:41] [23:34:06] tos - Got it, no problem. : ) [17:41:43] [23:34:33] So what are we doing today? :) [17:41:45] [23:35:13] Well, I just got the formatting done for the pamphlet... [17:41:47] [23:35:48] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gkepurS0kezR4pTS_yDdN_bl0_sQ_EmynZ2fqhKheVY/edit [17:41:50] [23:35:54] That's also in the folder. [17:41:52] [23:36:36] Right. [17:41:54] [23:36:48] Before we begin, I have a quick Question. [17:41:56] [23:37:22] Do you think we will need so many sides for the pamphlet? [17:41:58] [23:38:09] Yeah, I had been thinking about that. [17:42:00] [23:39:25] * Disconnected (No such device or address) [17:42:02] [23:40:23] * Now talking on #wpmentorship [17:42:04] [23:40:23] * Topic for #wpmentorship is: Work is in progess! | https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Reimagining_Wikipedia_Mentorship | Leave feedback at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IEG/Reimagining_Wikipedia_Mentorship | Logs at http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wpmentorship/ [17:42:08] [23:40:23] * Topic for #wpmentorship set by tos2!~tos@wikipedia/TheOriginalSoni (Thu Jun 19 17:58:25 2014) [17:42:13] [23:40:32] But actually, I think we should talk mock-ups today as Gabe has sent those examples. [17:42:16] [23:40:44] Hey, did you miss some of what I said? [17:42:18] [23:40:53] Ugh, yet another dc. Let me check logs [17:42:20] [23:41:41] Weird, no logs :/ [17:42:22] [23:42:01] I just read " Yeah, I had been thinking about that." before I got dced [17:42:24] [23:42:09] Here is what I said after: [17:42:26] [23:42:10] Andnow I must bring a bot in here. [17:42:28] [23:42:18] Right, what was it [17:42:30] [23:42:23] [13:08] I_Jethrobot I figure we can start with a lot of space to work with, but we can always reduce the number of pages as we go. [17:42:33] [23:42:25] [13:08] I_Jethrobot If we need to. [17:42:35] [23:42:26] [13:09] I_Jethrobot Some pamphlets leave a page blank, too. [17:42:37] [23:42:47] * tos has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [17:42:41] [23:42:49] Right. [17:42:43] [23:42:52] * You are now known as tos [18:55:38] Seems like the full logs werent transferred so here is another shot [18:55:41] Hi bot [18:56:02] [23:42:49] Right. [18:56:02] [23:42:52] * You are now known as tos [18:56:02] [23:44:22] So is it mockups or pamphlets? [18:56:02] [23:44:27] I_Jethrobot, ^ [18:56:02] [23:44:36] Mock-ups firt. [18:56:03] [23:44:38] first* [18:56:05] [23:44:43] Got it [18:56:07] [23:44:46] So, open up those documents your way. [18:56:09] [23:44:53] documents that I forwarded* [18:56:11] [23:45:46] Yep [18:56:13] [23:47:19] Ready when you are... [18:56:17] [23:47:35] So, reading these examples over, what we need to do is be very specific about what editors sees and does each step of the way during mentorship. Obviously actual mentorship itself will differ depending on the skill and mentor, but everything else we need to describe. [18:56:21] [23:47:48] what editors see and do* [18:56:23] [23:48:20] Right. [18:56:25] [23:49:11] So we'll need to start thinking of the specific events that will happen at the Co-op. [18:56:28] [23:49:35] Hmmm. Here are the ones I can see. [18:56:30] [23:49:36] Sort of like how the "New Resident User Site Flow" has at the top of that Word document. [18:56:33] [23:49:44] 1) Editor makes profile [18:56:35] [23:49:58] (Both mentor and mentee workflow) [18:56:37] [23:50:05] Ah, right. [18:56:39] [23:50:20] 2) Mentee chooses first lesson/gets first lesson assigned [18:56:41] [23:51:02] 3) An appropriate mentor is selected and pinged. Once mentor confirms availablity, lesson can begin [18:56:46] [23:51:44] 4) Mentor teaches and completes lesson [Not to be discussed in workflow?] [18:56:48] [23:52:24] 5) Once lesson is done, mentee may be suggested tasks they can do [By mentor or by system?] [18:56:51] [23:52:58] 6) Learner selects next lesson based on recommendations/mentor suggestion/initial stated goal [18:56:54] [23:53:20] Alright, this is good so far. I'll get a document started to list these out. [18:56:57] [23:53:39] 7) Badge.. err.. I mean stickers are given the learner for completion of lesson [Again not in workflow? Bot handled I suppose] [18:57:00] [23:53:52] hah. [18:57:15] I_Jethrobot, Hello [18:57:25] tos2 - Hey! [18:57:31] I was just copypasting the logs from before [18:57:36] Seems like the bot is working :) [18:57:40] It was a little funny coming and seeing our previous chat come up. : ) [18:57:56] Great! Thanks for checking up on that. [18:58:01] How are you doing? [18:58:34] Did your move back to college go relatively smoothly? [18:58:36] I'm doing great. Completely settled for the next few months. Well, almost :) [18:58:58] It did. The first week has been exhausting but its easing up [18:59:30] (If you give me a minute, I'll just copypaste the rest of the logs. You might want to turn your hexchat ping off for this) [18:59:40] Hi again bot. [18:59:42] [23:53:20] Alright, this is good so far. I'll get a document started to list these out. [18:59:42] [23:53:39] 7) Badge.. err.. I mean stickers are given the learner for completion of lesson [Again not in workflow? Bot handled I suppose] [18:59:42] [23:53:52] hah. [18:59:42] [23:54:20] ... Or just mentor handled. In which case we might need a workflow [18:59:43] [23:56:28] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hjvXTH8W0smrnRu6v7erby344hRxk0gQuzFIFEF4xDM/edit [18:59:48] [23:56:44] Badges would be mentored, but we will need a workflow for them. [18:59:50] [23:57:04] Right. [18:59:53] [23:57:35] Just from a basic outline, I can see that the mentorship space will look quite different for a mentor and mentee. [18:59:55] [23:57:59] Certainly! [18:59:57] [23:58:02] So we might have to look into both sides for nearly task. [18:59:59] [23:58:22] Should we make separate mock-ups for the learner and mentor, then? [19:00:01] [23:58:27] Yes. [19:00:03] [23:58:31] I think [19:00:05] [23:58:41] For example, 1.a) Mentor decides/makes lesson plan for all lessons they are planning to teach [19:00:08] [23:59:24] This 1.a will have to be done when mentor joins the program rather than when a mentee joins up [19:00:11] [23:59:36] Yeah, that makes sense. [19:00:13] [23:59:59] I_Jethrobot, I dont have access (Mail id the.original.soni@gmail.com) [19:00:17] [00:00:16] Ah, OK. [19:00:19] [00:00:40] I did just move them to the Reimagining Mentorship folder. [19:00:25] [00:00:43] Let me see... [19:00:25] [00:07:20] tos - Hm... [19:00:25] [00:07:42] It's not part of the immediate space, yeah. [19:00:27] [00:10:04] I_Jethrobot, yes? [19:00:29] [00:10:47] The invite is going to be important though, as it will be an extension of the space (i.e. it will be themed in line with our space) [19:00:32] [00:11:04] Agreed. [19:00:34] [00:11:26] I_Jethrobot, I believe these wont be our UX. [19:00:36] [00:11:55] I said these points as the headings under which we would have to make a separate UX for each. [19:00:39] [00:12:15] ^ Thats what I thought. These are the 4-5 major points which we'll expand. [19:00:41] [00:12:53] Ah, I see. [19:00:43] [00:13:27] OK,we'll scrap #1 for now. [19:00:47] [00:14:31] Either way makes sense to me, so we can continue whichever way seems best to you [19:00:49] [00:17:17] OK. [19:00:51] [00:17:23] So, this is a good level to start with. [19:00:53] [00:17:32] Right. [19:00:55] [00:17:48] What's next? [19:00:59] [00:18:35] Now, we need think about what these choices look like-- buttons, menus, lists. We've done some of that already (e.g. pinging a mentor, clicking a button) [19:01:00] [00:19:22] Btw I just added the initial point for learner (Learner joins space) [19:01:02] [00:19:23] That is, the tool by which someone makes these decisions. These won't be set in stone, but they are something we should have some ideas about for when we discuss them with our designer and developer. [19:01:06] [00:19:36] Right. [19:01:08] [00:19:36] Good, thanks. [19:01:10] [00:19:54] So, it's fine if these end up changing drastically. [19:01:12] [00:21:41] Gotcha. [19:01:16] [00:22:04] So do we start expanding on these points now or is it a task for later/next meeting? [19:01:19] [00:23:42] Yeah, I think we can work on that on our own through the week. [19:01:20] [00:23:59] Briefly, let's talk about the pamphlet. [19:01:26] [00:24:20] Got it. I'll probably not get enough time for it, but I'll try to squeeze some in through my packing-and-moving. [19:01:27] [00:24:22] (I actually another meeting with Gabe here in the next 7-8 minutes or so.) [19:01:33] [00:24:43] That's fine. Gabe may have some interest in working on this as well. [19:01:33] [00:25:07] Can we divide the work, I_Jethrobot? That way I can work on my side of the mock ups while offline. [19:01:33] [00:25:21] Sure. [19:01:34] [00:25:22] Do you want to handle the mentor side? [19:01:36] [00:25:34] Yes. [19:01:38] [00:26:19] I_Jethrobot, So pamphlets? [19:01:40] [00:26:20] * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine) [19:01:43] [00:26:48] * Now talking on #wpmentorship [19:01:47] [00:27:25] Ugh, i hate it. Last thing I see was "[00:25:34] Yes. [19:01:49] [00:27:25] [00:26:19] I_Jethrobot, So pamphlets?" [19:01:51] [00:28:50] [13:55] I_Jethrobot OK, I'll let you focus on expanding that. [19:01:53] [00:28:52] [13:55] I_Jethrobot Gabe and I will focus on the learner side this week. [19:01:55] [00:29:12] Ugh, let's not worry about pamphlets today. [19:01:57] [00:29:49] What's your availability the rest of this week? [19:01:59] [00:29:57] Got it. If you get any work done on the learner side in the next 2 days, I'll know what I need to do for the mentors [19:02:02] [00:30:07] I know you want to pack and all, so I don't want to monopolize your time! [19:02:04] [00:31:10] I am pretty busy the rest of the weeks. I will be free tonight but will end up taking a lot of time sorting through all my stuff and finishing preparation for London. [19:02:07] [00:31:14] *week [19:02:09] [00:31:35] So will it be possible for you to discuss pamphlets later tonight? [19:02:11] [00:31:57] I can. [19:02:13] [00:31:58] Let me see... [19:02:17] [00:32:21] I might be able to make tomorrow, but will need a bit of juggling I'll prefer to avoid [19:02:20] [00:33:45] Tonight for me = Anytime in the next 5-6 hours [19:02:23] [00:34:13] I'll be unavailable between 21:30 today and 3:00 UTC tomorrow. [19:02:25] [00:34:27] But before or after I can do. [19:02:26] [00:35:01] Er, make that 3:30 UTC. [19:02:28] [00:35:26] 21:30 sounds fine to me. [19:02:30] [00:36:11] What I mean is that I'll be unavailable starting at 21:30. [19:02:32] [00:36:26] But I can meet at 20:30 [19:02:34] [00:36:39] Oh, my bad. [19:02:36] [00:36:48] I throught you will be available starting at 21:30 [19:02:38] [00:37:24] I have a drum class I go to that's kind of far off (I have to bike there). [19:02:40] [00:37:32] I'll be gone for an hour I think. After that, I'm available. How does that sound? [19:02:42] [00:37:38] Right, got it [19:02:46] [00:37:41] That's fine. [19:02:48] [00:37:53] So, I'll you in an hour? [19:02:50] [00:37:56] Yes [19:02:52] [00:37:57] I'll see* [19:02:54] [00:38:22] OK, sounds good. [19:02:56] [00:41:38] * Gabe (4a5c0289@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.92.2.137) has joined [19:02:58] [00:43:32] Hey Gabe! [19:03:00] [00:43:46] Hi Jethro [19:03:02] [00:43:51] Im going to start a new document [19:03:04] [00:43:58] Fantastic. [19:03:06] [00:44:14] I actually need to e-mail Steven about our interview sample parameters. [19:03:08] [00:44:28] So, let me send that off real fast, I just was finishing it up. [19:03:10] [00:44:37] ok [19:03:12] [00:45:39] ok new document should be available to in the group gdoc folder [19:03:16] [00:46:51] Excellent. Thanks. [19:03:18] [00:49:21] what do you think about organizing all questions by learners and mentors? [19:03:20] [00:53:14] Hang on, just a sec... [19:03:22] [00:56:16] Gabe - OK, done. [19:03:24] [00:56:23] OK, so for organizing these... [19:03:26] [00:58:04] and we can indicate which appear to be distinctly qual or quant, otherwise they can assume to be both [19:03:29] [00:58:14] *we can assume [19:03:31] [00:58:18] .... [19:03:33] [00:58:40] Yeah, I was thinking of that kind of system. [19:03:35] [00:59:02] The other thing is that we could sort them based on the broad RQs Aaron threw out there at our last meeting. [19:03:38] [00:59:32] Right [19:03:40] [00:59:41] and break that down by learner and mentor? [19:03:42] [01:01:25] Well, can I ask how that's different than what's on the existing RQ docu? [19:03:46] [01:01:26] document* [19:03:48] [01:02:36] each group could have distinct behaviors that relate to their participation in the project. [19:03:51] [01:03:16] as such I am interested in organizing the research questions around each group [19:03:53] [01:05:05] OK, let's roll with that, then. [19:03:55] [01:08:17] I guess the only concern I have is how well we are able to capture the events with that system, but as they all involve mentors and learners in some capacity, it's probably more doable than I am initially thinking/ [19:03:59] [01:32:59] And back. [19:04:01] [01:33:01] Welp! [19:04:03] [01:35:36] tos - Hey. [19:04:05] [01:36:07] Hey I_Jethrobot [19:04:07] [01:38:22] tos - Gabe and I are working on refining our RQs... [19:04:09] [01:38:24] https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Z8V-AX68O9qtILuAdWg_BpunFsTskb6qpsy61M9y1cE/edit# [19:04:12] [01:38:42] But I'll be finishing up soon so we can focus on pamphlets. [19:04:16] [01:39:51] Gotcha. Ping me once you're done [19:04:18] [01:50:03] tos - OK, ready to go. [19:04:20] [01:51:40] Right. Before we begin, can you let me know what expactly are we planning to achieve by the pamphlets I_Jethrobot? [19:04:23] [01:51:56] Once we have the goal in mind, it will be a lot clearer to complete the rest of it [19:04:25] [01:52:51] Yeah, so a couple of things... [19:04:27] [01:53:17] 1) Invite interested folks in mentoring for the pilot [19:04:29] [01:54:02] 2) Convey the intentions of the space (i.e. why we're doing this) [19:04:31] [01:54:35] 3) Just getting the name of this space out there so the community recognizes it and knows what we're about. [19:04:34] [01:55:05] Right. [19:04:36] [01:55:06] 4) Some concrete information about data or information we've collected so far. [19:04:39] [01:55:23] (Like the diagnostic survey that Gabe conducted during our proposal.) [19:04:41] [01:55:37] (Or some of the research we mention in the proposal itself.) [19:04:43] [01:56:17] Got it. Is there anything else you had in mind, I_Jethrobot? [19:04:47] [01:57:54] Yeah, I think a last point is just informing folks who is involved with this space. [19:04:50] [01:59:13] Understood. [19:04:52] [02:00:56] So let's figure out what's going where, page-wise. [19:04:54] [02:01:08] Now given how people usually react to pamphlets, I kind-of prefer "Keeping it short and simple". [19:04:57] [02:01:23] Oh, I absolutely agree. [19:05:00] [02:01:28] We need to go light on text. [19:05:01] [02:01:43] Cool. So as succinct as we can? [19:05:03] [02:02:51] Yeah [19:05:05] [02:03:28] Roger that. [19:05:07] [02:03:43] How about we start with the information that we need to put. [19:05:09] [02:04:10] Start compiling all that and then place it into locations according to where they fit best? [19:05:12] [02:04:34] Or would you like to look at it page-wise, I_Jethrobot? [19:05:16] [02:05:07] Both are important up front, so why don't you start compiling information for those points, and I'll think about page setup. [19:05:19] [02:05:20] Aye aye Capn [19:05:21] [02:05:25] : ) [19:05:23] [02:06:27] * Gabe has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [19:05:25] [02:12:38] * I_Jethrobot has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) [19:05:27] [02:15:22] * I_Jethrobot (~I_Jethrob@wikipedia/I-Jethrobot) has joined [19:05:29] [02:15:28] tos - Hey, I'm back. [19:05:31] [02:15:35] Hey I_Jethrobot [19:05:33] [02:15:47] Sorry, I lost power in my apartment briefly. [19:05:35] [02:16:02] No worries. [19:05:37] [02:16:32] I have started work on compilation of points. Will show you in a moment [19:05:39] [02:16:56] Great. [19:05:41] [02:16:58] In the meanwhile, you can finalise the page-wise info for the sheet [19:05:43] [02:17:08] Or just check out https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Mb5rHM8jjQ-pFiTZ85Qupb9ddPgJsT24WfzZHDtUQFQ/edit# [19:05:48] [02:17:18] it'll be better if we're on the same "page" [19:05:50] [02:23:40] Yeah. [19:05:55] [02:23:55] Hey, can we get that bot back in here to log our discussions? [19:05:55] [02:23:59] ^tos [19:05:56] [02:24:16] I've been trying. [19:05:58] [02:24:35] If it does not work, then I'll try to find alternatives [19:06:00] [02:25:03] Once the bot is back, I'll just copy paste the conversations so it gets logged [19:06:02] [02:26:30] Thanks, I appreciate it. [19:06:04] [02:30:14] tos - OK, I actually have to head out. [19:06:06] [02:30:39] Right. WHat do you want to do about the Pamphlets then I_Jethrobot? [19:06:08] [02:30:51] tos - Sorry to cut us off. I've set up what each of the pages could have on it. We can certainly move things around or change the scope next time we discuss it. [19:06:11] [02:31:36] I'd like you to keep developing text content for each of these pages for now, keeping in mind our goal to be brief. [19:06:16] [02:31:43] Gotcha. When do you think we can meet next I_Jethrobot? [19:06:18] [02:31:57] I'm flexible. What works best for you for this week? [19:06:20] [02:33:04] Tomorrow I'll be a little busy between 23:45 and 2:00 UTC [19:06:22] [02:33:07] but that's about it. [19:06:24] [02:33:55] Right. I was hoping to avoid any meetings for tomorrow but it seems this is the best way. [19:06:27] [02:35:05] How about you schedule early enough so we can extend the time a bit if needed, and complete all the pamphlet work by tomorrow? [19:06:30] [02:35:33] That way, I wont need to worry about scheduling another pamphlet meeting this/next meeting [19:06:33] [02:36:06] *this/next week [19:06:35] [02:36:15] Actually, I think we can avoid another meeting altogether. [19:06:37] [02:36:34] Why don't work on the text, and let me know when you're finished. I think Siko and I can or Jake and I can pick up and start putting everything together. [19:06:40] [02:36:41] We can? [19:06:42] [02:36:43] don't you work on the text* [19:06:46] [02:37:21] Hmm... Do you have anyone on the design side who can make it look attractive enough? :) [19:06:49] [02:37:23] Yeah, because I think we know what we want on there, and I like the things you're writing so far, so I think the content is coming along well. [19:06:52] [02:37:54] Well, I just had an interview with a designer yesterday, and he's fantastic. [19:06:54] [02:38:01] And he's interested, and he's available. [19:06:56] [02:38:05] So, I think we have our designer. [19:06:58] [02:38:07] : ) [19:07:00] [02:38:23] So yes, I think he will have some suggestions. [19:07:02] [02:38:56] Sounds purfect! [19:07:04] [02:39:15] We got our designer right in time to make the pamphlets [19:07:06] [02:39:49] Before I go, when will things settle down for you once you get back to school? [19:07:09] [02:40:08] I mean, I know things will still be busy and all, but I wanted to give you some time to get settled. [19:07:12] [02:41:43] I'll reach college and be prepped for another meeting by 28th or 29th. [19:07:16] [02:41:53] Okay, great. [19:07:18] [02:41:54] Thanks. [19:07:20] [02:42:48] Alright Soni, I hope the move back goes smoothly. See you in about a week. Just send me an e-mail when you are done with the pamphlet content. [19:07:23] [02:43:06] Gotcha. See you later I_Jethrobot. Happy drumming :) [19:07:25] [02:43:17] Thanks! [19:07:27] [02:43:21] * I_Jethrobot has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]) [19:07:29] [03:54:50] * Disconnected (An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine) [19:07:32] [04:09:44] * tos sets mode +i on tos [19:07:34] ----------------END LOG ------------------------ [19:07:36] Phew [19:07:38] I_Jethrobot, We're goodto go. :) [19:07:40] If there are any logs missing, I'll check them and re-log them after this meeting [19:08:05] tos2 - Wow, that was impressive. [19:08:09] Thanks. : ) [19:08:19] No problem. [19:09:47] So, the focus for today is going be developing these use cases, which we were previously calling mock-ups. [19:10:39] Apparently the term "mock-ups" refers more to the physical design and look of the space, whereas we are just giving a description of what we want a user to do in the space. [19:10:58] Right. [19:11:48] I unfortunately was unable to work on my end of the use cases, but now I have sufficient time to do it [19:14:30] Great. [19:15:10] So we're going to use the same Google Doc as before for completing the use cases? [19:15:26] That's right. I've renamed it to "Use Case Draft" [19:15:47] Gotcha. Let me find the link [19:17:54] I_Jethrobot, Did you have anything done for the learners? That way it will be easier for me to follow a similar format [19:18:21] Nothing too substantial yet, just some rewording and rearrangement. [19:19:15] Right. [19:19:24] So to get started, one matter we should think about is how we will notify editors about various events. [19:20:24] Hmmm... Good question. I am thinking the best such location will be user talk pages, no? [19:20:31] Like, when they are matched with a mentor, when they receive new suggestions, and when they receive new badges. [19:20:39] er, stickers. [19:22:07] Yeah, I think that's one possibility, we can also use the notifications system. [19:22:46] Oh, and that reminds me, Siko brought up an interesting proposal you should know about. [19:23:33] I wonder how the notification system will fit in. It has some specific constraints so we'll need to think about that, but it could be workable [19:24:39] So, I had a meeting with Jake and Siko earlier this week. Siko informed me the development team for Flow, the new communications system has expressed interest in our space as a test case for newer editors. [19:24:59] (I missed a comma in there.) [19:25:04] : P [19:26:20] Sounds cool. I could see it as a good plan to get newcomer feedback on flow. [19:26:50] Anyway, I will be meeting with their product manager with Jake and Siko to discuss the prospects of doing that much later this month. My immediate thought is that the pilot is not the best time to test a new communications system, but I have to find out more about how they might like to use it. [19:28:01] I've tinkered around with Flow a little bit on some of the test pages, and I do like what they are doing, so I'm open to suggestions. [19:28:09] Right. [19:29:17] Importantly, we need to have our use cases set so that the Flow dev team knows how the Co-op is expected to function with regard to communication. [19:29:57] So, back to the draft. : ) [19:30:22] So how do you suggest we work on the use cases right now? [19:30:28] But I did want to let you know about that upcoming conversation. I also just talked to Gabe about it yesterday. [19:31:09] Well, let's get back to how we will notify editors. [19:31:17] Gotcha. [19:31:31] I think the talk page idea is just fine, and it's something we know bots can handle. [19:31:37] So let's stick with that for now. [19:32:42] So we definitely want to notify editors about when they are matched, when they receive suggestions, and when they finish a lesson (and receive a sticker). [19:33:37] Are there any other messages that we would want the Co-op to typically send to learners / mentors? [19:34:07] Mentors - When there is a mentee for them [19:34:52] As for learners, I was kindof thinking the suggestions will be part of the Co-op interface rather than being solely through talk pages [19:36:05] Yeah, I agree that we should consolidate some of this to the Co-op. [19:36:42] Mentor - When they are inactive [19:36:48] Would you want mentors to see that there is a mentee for them on the Co-op only? I'd be OK with that. [19:38:03] I personally wouldn't. Because we need the Co-op, atleast in the pilot, to adjust to the mentor workflows not the other way round. [19:38:35] So it'd be smoother for mentors if they get notified when there is a learner for them, rather than expecting them to check the co-op [19:40:39] I think it can be smoother, but we also need to think about how the match is going to work. Will all qualified mentors be notified of a match, or just one? Will a mentor receive a list of current learners they could mentor, or individual messages? [19:41:43] I think my main concern with using talk pages to notify mentors about matches is them getting too many messages; but I think that can be alleviated if we match one specific learner to one specific mentor. [19:41:56] This was what I percieved about the matching process - [19:42:47] 1) All mentors we have are currently active. If there are any mentors inactive/idle, we leave them a message like Teahouse Hostbot does and then temporarily mark them as inactive, as needed [19:43:19] 2) Whenever a new learner joins, they are matched with one active mentor. The mentor is notified of the same on the talk page [19:44:38] 3) If the mentor starts the skills lesson, then the lesson continues. Otherwise after x days, the learner is reassigned to a new mentor and the previous mentor is temporarily marked as inactive (and notified of the same) [19:44:50] ^ this is what I percieved. [19:46:13] What do you think I_Jethrobot? [19:46:42] I think this is very good, so now we just need to incorporate it clearly in our use cases. [19:48:30] Alright. [19:50:07] I think info about what we do with inactive mentors won't come into play in these use cases for now, but we can just say that we'll be drawing on active mentors. [19:50:34] Right. [19:51:03] I think it will end up being necessary because the entire "remove/add mentors as active" part will be done by the bot [19:51:03] So, I'll update the learner side with the talk page details in #2. [19:51:15] Yeah. [19:51:26] Ah, nevermind. I just realised that would be part of the bot, but not the use case [19:51:56] For mentors, you'll want to specify that they'll be matched with a single learners (as opposed to all qualified learners). [19:52:21] Got it. I'll be right back in about 5 minutes. [19:57:20] OK, I'm just starting to adjust things on the learner side. [20:02:59] So back. [20:09:49] tos2 - One thing I added about the learner profiles was about what they know already coming into the Co-op. [20:10:39] At the moment, I'm not sure how we're going to handle how the learner will input this information. [20:13:37] I think that's fine. We can iterate more on the process once the designer and coder join the discussions :) [20:18:45] Yeah, definitely. [20:29:06] I_Jethrobot, I think I am done with first try on the use cases [20:29:15] Can you check it out and see how it looks? [20:30:39] tos2 - Certainly! [20:38:35] I_Jethrobot, Poke me when you're done checking it [20:38:51] Sure, just adding comments as I'm going along. [20:38:54] Looks good so far. [20:48:42] Is it done yet? [20:49:00] tos2 - OK, all set. [20:49:21] Looks very good, much more thorough. [20:49:53] Why don't you go through my comments and let me know if you have any follow-ups or questions. [20:50:19] I need to go through the learner section again to make sure it meshes well with this use case for mentors. [20:56:18] I_Jethrobot, Done. I replied to most comments right there. [21:03:22] I_Jethrobot, Is there anything else we're yet to discuss? [21:03:54] tos2 - Just a few follow-ups I have, hang on... [21:03:56] OK. [21:04:25] Just check out my comment on your #7 [21:05:34] And I also need a little more explanation on #12 [21:06:07] I_Jethrobot, About #7, here is what I thought about the mentor's "personal page" [21:06:51] Its like a unified page that lists all the lessons the mentor is currently taking, along with a few more details [21:07:41] Like "About me" for example. Or other links as needed. [21:08:14] It could even act akin to a Userpage for the co-op, with additional links for making things simpler. [21:08:53] Like there will be a prominent button that says "Start lesson" and they can create the lesson for the learner based on how they see fit [21:10:08] Does that make sense to you I_Jethrobot? [21:10:19] So, it sounds like it's sort of like a profile with some additional tools for the mentor? [21:10:26] Exactly. [21:11:06] The lessons are all in their relevant Co-op/Lesson/LeanerName/LessonName (or whatever extension we choose) [21:12:02] I'll have to think about this one some more. [21:12:07] Sure. [21:12:17] This is all what I had in mind [21:12:59] But they are also linked from the personal page. So the personal page can also end up being the primary landing page for any mentor to check up on the mentees. [21:13:21] So is the personal page the same or different than the mentor's profile? [21:13:43] Alright I realise I am slightly unclear on what the personal page does and what it doesnt, so I'll rather just bounce ideas around and see what you decide best [21:14:23] There are qualities of the structured extension that I like, so that mentors do not have to constantly make new pages all the time. [21:14:37] My idea for personal space was two fold - 1) It contains all tools for mentors as well as list of all courses they are taking (maybe even the courses they have taken) [21:15:21] 2) It is a personalisable location for the mentor where the mentor profile is also displayed [21:15:58] I_Jethrobot, Could you rephrase the last point you made [21:16:52] Sure. What I meant to say was that the structure you suggested is good so that mentors do not need to develop their own system. [21:17:47] tos2 - When you say "tools for mentors" could you give me some examples of what might be on there? Are you talking about lesson material? [21:18:56] Gotcha. It also makes sense from the POV of anyone wanting to see how well our Co-op has been working. Traversing through structured paes would end up being much simplerthan a pseudo-randomish search [21:23:04] Hmmm.. [21:23:23] Here are a few "tools" I thought that could be part of the personal space [21:23:37] 1) Lesson material will definitely be among them. If a mentor decides to develop their own lesson/modify the RC lessons to create their lessons, I think the best location to have it will be the personal space. [21:23:50] 2) 2) Likewise you said mentors could keep a "watch" on the mentees. I am guessing that if technically feasible, this will be done right from the personal page itself (Sort of displayed similar to a watchlist). [21:24:01] 3) All lessons will be listed down in a manner similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jackson_Peebles/Adoption#Adoptees which makes searching easier. [21:24:12] 4) There will be a few buttons like "Start new lesson" that will allow mentor to start lesson with a single click based on chosen lesson, instead of manually substing the lesson [21:26:23] Ah, OK. [21:30:27] I agree that the personal space for the "start new lesson" and have a system to track learners will be helpful. I think the key is that this space can be used flexibly by the mentor based on whatever is convenient for them and their teaching approach. [21:31:14] Agreed. [21:33:23] OK, so I do like this idea of a personal space, and so now it's a matter of how that will come into play in the use cases. [21:33:44] Learners probably won't be dealing with it very much, correct? [21:34:47] I mean, editors generally speaking can check out the personal space if they wan, but it's not really a step in the process for learners going through the Co-op. [21:34:52] want* [21:35:42] tos2^ [21:36:23] Yes [21:37:13] Learners will not be dealing with the space muc, it will be mostly considered under the "back-end" of the mentor/learner wall [21:37:22] OK, good. [21:38:47] tos2 - I actually do want to talk more about this personal space idea with Jake and Siko; while I do like it, I am always a little cautious about imposing organizational systems. [21:39:48] I think given where we are, we can have that discussion at Wikimania. [21:39:52] Right, that makes sense. As I said, I'm just giving my idea of how I think it will be [21:39:59] Gotcha. [21:41:00] OK. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with these use cases. I have a few other things to review on the learner side, but I can look at that this weekend. [21:41:46] Was there anything on your mind you wanted to talk about or ask about? [21:42:55] What about the report? [21:43:44] The monthly report? [21:45:23] Yes [21:45:53] Were you interested in doing the report for the 15th? [21:46:45] I know we'll be at the conference, but that might also be a good topic for you to write about. : ) [21:48:00] Sounds cool. I reach India on 15th so I'll either do the report after reaching or during Wikimania [21:48:57] Sounds good. Would you be interested in publishing the report, or a version of it, on the WMF blog? [21:49:51] Siko has been encouraging us to make our reports a bit more visible, and I think the WMF blog is a good way to do so. [21:50:54] Hmmm... Let me complete it first. If it looks in decent shape, I dont see why we cant publish a version on the WMF blog [21:50:59] The only stipulation is that we give them about two weeks notice from the time we want it published. [21:51:15] So they have a chance to find a good time for it / revise it / etc. [21:51:36] Oh, so that causes italics... [21:51:41] Anyway. : ) [21:53:05] I really think we should go for it. I'm happy to look over your report if you don't think it's blog-ready. [21:53:59] Sure. I'll show you the report once I'm done with drafting it :) [21:56:18] Great. I will hold you to finishing it up during Wikimania so we can review it and hand it off to WMF, so I might bother you about it every once in a while. : ) [21:57:31] Sounds fun : ) [21:57:32] Anyway, I have to get going. I'll let you know soon if there's anything else we should meet to discuss before the conference is upon us. [21:57:43] So is that it for tonight, I_Jethrobot? [21:57:54] I think I need to sleep too [21:57:57] Yeah, that's all. : ) [21:58:17] Agreed! I'm sorry to keep you up longer than I set out in the meeting. I'll be more realistic next time! [21:58:51] Ah, no worries. [21:58:59] Night I_Jethrobot [21:59:15] goodnight!